As an ex nurse, now retired, I can see plenty of flaws in this case. There are always plenty of staff in a Neonatal ward as well as other Mums and Dads and I can certainly see that the sterile packaging could not possibly be opened in silence and it's double wrapped always. Thank you Dan for your work on this because no one else would touch it as its deeply emotional for all concerned let alone Lucy herself. In my opinion, the least that should happen is a retrial and all the evidence reviewed by eminent professionals. It must be really hard for a jury with no medical experience to be able to make a proper decision when emotions were running so high at the time. I'm so glad Lucy has you on her side
This case needs highlighting Dan and well done for being brave enough to add your name to a growing list of serious people like David Davies who see a problem here. I don’t know where Lucy Letby is innocent or guilty but there certainly seems to be a lot of evidence that wasn’t presented in a balanced way at her trial. Anyone who cares about British justice needs to support the call for this to be looked at again.
You havn't convinced me from this comment that she is innocent & deserves a retrial especially "crinkly packaging:" evidence.
But having said that if you truly believe she is innocent, I am happy to be convinced, as a miscarriage of justice of an inocent young woman jailed for life would be unforgiveable.
Just for once, Dan, I disagree with you. There is other evidence from the nurses who worked with her. They knew she had an unhealthy preoccupation with patients dying. They witnessed on different occasions and quite independently, how death excited her. She was reputed to have said she was longing for her first death. She got a light in her eyes and couldn’t stop herself from talking about it and wanting to be involved if there was a death. This was even before the babies started dying.
The fact that the babies were quite healthy and stable before she came on watch and they had no other underlying problems is indicative. They mostly died by the same process.
No, I’m sorry but I think the court was right. I have studied Evidence and Procedure in the course of my degree in Law and my assessment of this case is that the fasts and the witnesses experience both show without doubt that Lucy Lethby was guilty.
Just as an after note. No babies have died in that way since she was stopped. You’re wasting your time on lethal Lucy, Dan.
I agree with you Kat. There must not be a knee jerk reaction to David Davis’ claims that some evidence is not as it seems. She was found guilty on a lot of other evidence. Let’s all calm down about this.
I'm not sure whether she is guilty or not but she certainly deserves a retrial with all evidence and allowing defence witnesses to be heard. There has certainly been enough doubt uncovered now to demand a retrial and it is only fair to Lucy. It would be unthinkable if she is indeed innocent of these heinous crimes, and maybe, no murders actually took place.
And with the media being told to shut the f up until the verdict is given.
I am pretty convinced some of the execrable reporting carried out during the trial would have got the Attorney Generals' attention in other times and certain penalties affixed...
It is a similar view to how I dislike (in the UK) alleged rapists being named in court BEFORE a judgement is made. Often big shitty headlines, especially in the local papers, and maybe (if the guy is lucky) months on bail instead of remand. Shaming, hassles and the full works.
Then IF found not guilty, three or four lines often on page 43 if you are lucky, and then maybe not always naming him.
Totally agree. Needed a lawyer who understood the statistics better. Should have called an expert witness who was a stats expert to explain things in a way a layman could understand.
The issue I have with the "scapegoating" of Lucy is what have the authorities to gain from it? If the argument is to avoid the NHS being discredited with the sewage seeping into the ward etc, it merely adds to the criticism of the NHS when a nurse is murdering babies and no one has either noticed or failed to report it. I would regard a murderer roaming around on the ward as a bigger transgression from any health authority than possible unsanitary conditions or any other immediate factor I can think of that would contribute to deaths. I don't see why there would be a push from the authorities to scapegoat letby as it discredits them further.
Regarding the evidence, it has to be proven in criminal law " beyond reasonable doubt" contrary to civil law which is on the balance of probability. It is open to debate whether the evidence passes the threshold of the former, but fair play in discussing it. The circumstantial evidence is quite damning but fail to see how a diary entry where she writes about killing the babies can be viewed as anything other than damning. I saw the show where she was apparently encouraged by psychologists to write how she felt, but I don't know any normal person who would write such things in a personal diary which indicates either mental illness or guilt. Whether the former is evidence of the latter is again open to debate, but I personally think she is guilty.
But didn’t doctors testify that they caught her in the act? I’m not sure we should be making any claims without all the evidence. I can’t help but think it’s because of her blonde blue eyed English rose looks that she is actually getting so much support.
I think her conviction stinks. She had a lousy defence and it has only recently come to light about her notes being written on the advice of counsellors. WTF! Sadly I think think this nurse was a little naïve and that was taken advantage of by all who were too eager to get someone locked up for the deaths and the key thrown away. All the other points you make Dan are so relevant. Thanks for speaking out.
The head of occupational health and wellbeing at the hospital where Letby worked, Kathryn de Beger, had encouraged her to write down her feelings to cope with extreme stress. Letby’s Chester GP also told her to write down thoughts she was struggling to process.
Richard Curen, the chair of the Forensic Psychotherapy Society said doodling, journalling is a way of taking control of your thoughts and didnt think it related to a confession of any kind.
David Wilson, a professor of criminology at Birmingham City University said many people will say things when they are under stress and feeling bereft that seem to imply one thing but mean nothing at all, other than reflecting the underlying stress.
Her notes were meaningless and had no value as evidence.
Thank you Dan, for breaking cover. The campaign is attracting some smart people. Her new lawyer is a protege of Michael Mansfield. He's putting his career on the line by taking her case on.
We all know just by looking at the persecution of Tommy Robinson that the truth is meaningless with the establishment we have. If they are out to get you they will and are quick to downplay or hide any evidence which goes against their position. I'm sure I heard that their had been 50 more baby deaths in that time scale where Lucy wasn't on duty which wasn't presented to the court. If that is the case then scapegoat comes to mind.
I thought that Lucy Letby was going to be found Guilty when the police founds some notes from Lucy Letby from her then Bedroom saying I'm Evil , I did this, meaning that she did kill those babies, i feel in my head that the media thinks she Guilty, But Lucy Letby must prove to everybody that she did not killed those babies, and if Lucy Letby is innocent , Then this will be the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history. and their will be lots of Question for the hospital and for The police.
But here is the link to that one off programme called Lucy Letby The Nurse Who Killed from the BBC
Thank you for the
TRUTH.
As an ex nurse, now retired, I can see plenty of flaws in this case. There are always plenty of staff in a Neonatal ward as well as other Mums and Dads and I can certainly see that the sterile packaging could not possibly be opened in silence and it's double wrapped always. Thank you Dan for your work on this because no one else would touch it as its deeply emotional for all concerned let alone Lucy herself. In my opinion, the least that should happen is a retrial and all the evidence reviewed by eminent professionals. It must be really hard for a jury with no medical experience to be able to make a proper decision when emotions were running so high at the time. I'm so glad Lucy has you on her side
This case needs highlighting Dan and well done for being brave enough to add your name to a growing list of serious people like David Davies who see a problem here. I don’t know where Lucy Letby is innocent or guilty but there certainly seems to be a lot of evidence that wasn’t presented in a balanced way at her trial. Anyone who cares about British justice needs to support the call for this to be looked at again.
💯
You havn't convinced me from this comment that she is innocent & deserves a retrial especially "crinkly packaging:" evidence.
But having said that if you truly believe she is innocent, I am happy to be convinced, as a miscarriage of justice of an inocent young woman jailed for life would be unforgiveable.
Just for once, Dan, I disagree with you. There is other evidence from the nurses who worked with her. They knew she had an unhealthy preoccupation with patients dying. They witnessed on different occasions and quite independently, how death excited her. She was reputed to have said she was longing for her first death. She got a light in her eyes and couldn’t stop herself from talking about it and wanting to be involved if there was a death. This was even before the babies started dying.
The fact that the babies were quite healthy and stable before she came on watch and they had no other underlying problems is indicative. They mostly died by the same process.
No, I’m sorry but I think the court was right. I have studied Evidence and Procedure in the course of my degree in Law and my assessment of this case is that the fasts and the witnesses experience both show without doubt that Lucy Lethby was guilty.
Just as an after note. No babies have died in that way since she was stopped. You’re wasting your time on lethal Lucy, Dan.
I agree with you Kat. There must not be a knee jerk reaction to David Davis’ claims that some evidence is not as it seems. She was found guilty on a lot of other evidence. Let’s all calm down about this.
Good on you Dan for raising these issues and pursuing this case. Much easier to blame an innocent nurse than a decrepit and corrupt hospital system
I honestly don’t know what to think about this. I am not convinced either way.
I'm not sure whether she is guilty or not but she certainly deserves a retrial with all evidence and allowing defence witnesses to be heard. There has certainly been enough doubt uncovered now to demand a retrial and it is only fair to Lucy. It would be unthinkable if she is indeed innocent of these heinous crimes, and maybe, no murders actually took place.
And with the media being told to shut the f up until the verdict is given.
I am pretty convinced some of the execrable reporting carried out during the trial would have got the Attorney Generals' attention in other times and certain penalties affixed...
Yes. She was presumed guilty from the start and all the MSM reporting confirmed that. Guilty or innocent, she never stood a chance.
It is a similar view to how I dislike (in the UK) alleged rapists being named in court BEFORE a judgement is made. Often big shitty headlines, especially in the local papers, and maybe (if the guy is lucky) months on bail instead of remand. Shaming, hassles and the full works.
Then IF found not guilty, three or four lines often on page 43 if you are lucky, and then maybe not always naming him.
She had two trials! There were no defence witnesses for her so how can you call for any?
Totally agree. Needed a lawyer who understood the statistics better. Should have called an expert witness who was a stats expert to explain things in a way a layman could understand.
It was absolutely nothing to do with statistics! !Show me more cases where statistics were used in evidence?
Lucia de Berk case in Netherlands is the most well known one.
The issue I have with the "scapegoating" of Lucy is what have the authorities to gain from it? If the argument is to avoid the NHS being discredited with the sewage seeping into the ward etc, it merely adds to the criticism of the NHS when a nurse is murdering babies and no one has either noticed or failed to report it. I would regard a murderer roaming around on the ward as a bigger transgression from any health authority than possible unsanitary conditions or any other immediate factor I can think of that would contribute to deaths. I don't see why there would be a push from the authorities to scapegoat letby as it discredits them further.
Regarding the evidence, it has to be proven in criminal law " beyond reasonable doubt" contrary to civil law which is on the balance of probability. It is open to debate whether the evidence passes the threshold of the former, but fair play in discussing it. The circumstantial evidence is quite damning but fail to see how a diary entry where she writes about killing the babies can be viewed as anything other than damning. I saw the show where she was apparently encouraged by psychologists to write how she felt, but I don't know any normal person who would write such things in a personal diary which indicates either mental illness or guilt. Whether the former is evidence of the latter is again open to debate, but I personally think she is guilty.
But didn’t doctors testify that they caught her in the act? I’m not sure we should be making any claims without all the evidence. I can’t help but think it’s because of her blonde blue eyed English rose looks that she is actually getting so much support.
I have never considered her guilty and thank goodness some influential journalists and people are stepping up
I think her conviction stinks. She had a lousy defence and it has only recently come to light about her notes being written on the advice of counsellors. WTF! Sadly I think think this nurse was a little naïve and that was taken advantage of by all who were too eager to get someone locked up for the deaths and the key thrown away. All the other points you make Dan are so relevant. Thanks for speaking out.
That was proven to be false! Her councellor said it was false!
The head of occupational health and wellbeing at the hospital where Letby worked, Kathryn de Beger, had encouraged her to write down her feelings to cope with extreme stress. Letby’s Chester GP also told her to write down thoughts she was struggling to process.
Richard Curen, the chair of the Forensic Psychotherapy Society said doodling, journalling is a way of taking control of your thoughts and didnt think it related to a confession of any kind.
David Wilson, a professor of criminology at Birmingham City University said many people will say things when they are under stress and feeling bereft that seem to imply one thing but mean nothing at all, other than reflecting the underlying stress.
Her notes were meaningless and had no value as evidence.
Thank you Dan, for breaking cover. The campaign is attracting some smart people. Her new lawyer is a protege of Michael Mansfield. He's putting his career on the line by taking her case on.
We all know just by looking at the persecution of Tommy Robinson that the truth is meaningless with the establishment we have. If they are out to get you they will and are quick to downplay or hide any evidence which goes against their position. I'm sure I heard that their had been 50 more baby deaths in that time scale where Lucy wasn't on duty which wasn't presented to the court. If that is the case then scapegoat comes to mind.
Hi Dan Wootton
I thought that Lucy Letby was going to be found Guilty when the police founds some notes from Lucy Letby from her then Bedroom saying I'm Evil , I did this, meaning that she did kill those babies, i feel in my head that the media thinks she Guilty, But Lucy Letby must prove to everybody that she did not killed those babies, and if Lucy Letby is innocent , Then this will be the biggest miscarriages of justice in British history. and their will be lots of Question for the hospital and for The police.
But here is the link to that one off programme called Lucy Letby The Nurse Who Killed from the BBC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yo13E3YwvBg&t=1173s
Don't know if you have seen it Dan Wootton